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Sunday, September 09, 2012

Steelers inactives

Steelers inactives for tonight's game include James Harrison, Rashard Mendenhall, Ryan Clark, Kelvin Beachum, Charlie Batch, Alameda Ta'amu and Stevenson Sylvester.

Baron Batch is active - presumably as a third back and special teamer.


Patrick said...

Another classic first and goal spike with a timeout in hand and close to 50 seconds left.

Is that ever going to change?

alexrkirby said...

All the penalties on the oline is crazy. WTF have they played football before?

marc said...

i guess that denver player blocker pulling mundy's jersey from behind isn't a penalty...

Mark said...

When they did a replay of the last play before that 3rd Q field goal (when Ben got rid of the ball just before two defenders hit him), it sure looked like Ben got hit and dragged down by the facemask.

Anonymous said...

Who knew the player the defense could least afford to lose was Ryan Clark?

Patrick said...

I don't think I can handle another season of Tomlin and his stupidity.

He INSISTED on challenging a play he was never going to win, and then sat on his hands as the broncos scored a TD, which by the recent interpretations, was NOT a TD.

It should have been a booth review for a scoring play and Tomlin could have at least tried to throw a flag. Instead he sat with his hands on hips looking clueless.

I cannot stand him as a coach.

Anonymous said...

Tomlin looked like a fool tonight With those idiotic challenges. Sheesh!

Patrick said...

and lets add a pathetic ending to this.

The game was over, but that many sacks? Just pathetic effort at the end. This team needs a gut check, in week 1.

kyle said...


You can't challenge a scoring play if it's ruled a score. If he had thrown a flag the referees would have politely told him that and he would have had to pick it up. There were mistakes in this game but don't be stupid.

Patrick said...

as i said "he could have tried"

at least its better than standing there with the "aw shucks" look on your face.

If he would have thrown the flag and held up the game, they probably would have booth reviewed it.

Anonymous Brian said...

My official (over)reaction:

Yes, the spike / wasted down is now an official Steelers specialty. If Rooney can get Arians out of here and try to get the young players on the field quicker, why can't he order the a stop to this. I know they got the TD but it is unbelievably stupid.

The defense was mostly putrid. Nice pass breakup by Keenan Lewis to hold them to a FG. As far as a big play -- Timmons: nothing. Polamalu: caused a delay of game once. Woodley: caught a pop-up fumble, then nothing.

The offense looked like a work in progress but did some good things. The O-line ended up being somewhat competent considering the circumstances until the we-give-up three-sack extravaganza at the very end. Now that I think about it the good things the offense did was mostly Ben on semi-broken plays or great throws on third-and-long. Sounds familiar, although I liked that he was checking down some and some of those quick throws.

Speaking of Ben, when's the last time he led a game-winning drive? That's what the $100 million is for. He looked superb at times and then...that interception was horrible and choke-ish.

(I think the last one was at 2-14 Indy last year.)

You know, I'm not going to overreact about the defense yet because maybe Peyton's just the old Peyton. But let's say they slip to being just an average defense this year -- shouldn't Ben and his offense, at this point in his career, be capable of bailing them out? Or at least giving them a shot instead of that embarrassment of a pick-six?

adamg said...

All scoring plays, as well as turnovers now, are reviewed in the booth.

Coaches depend on their assistants upstairs to help decide if they should challenge a play. On first replay look, it wasn't clear the knee was down.

I'm not sure why they went for a 2 point conversion, though. The best that gets you is a 3 pt lead and if Den, who was moving up and down the field at well, scores a TD, you can't win with a FG anyway.

But, let's face it, that game was sked in Denver to give ol' Peyton the best chance to win and live up to the all day hype on every network of his return.

kyle said...

he "could have tried" what? throwing a challenge flag that would do nothing? you think he can trick the referees into reviewing it?

they review every score. do you know why they didn't go under the hood for that play? because it was a touchdown. he caught it standing in the end zone but brought the ball over the line. as soon as that happened it was a touchdown. you're mistaken in thinking the go to the ground with the ball thing applies here.

they spiked it on first down because they were down to one time out. there was nothing wrong with that.

am I the only one who watched the god damn game?

Patrick said...

if you think that was a good spike with that much time, then you are out of your mind.

and how many plays have we seen in the NFL just like that TD, that get booth reviewed, and often overturned? I'm confident there are plenty.

If they booth reviewed that one, it was awfully quick.

adamg said...

Some things I liked on offense...

Ben being smarter about getting rid of the ball to check downs or just throwing it away.

Haley's commitment to the running game until they went to the no huddle full time.

The extensive use of max protect on pass plays. I think it was a big reason they converted so many 3rd downs.

The variety of plays and pass routes. Nice to see Wallace run something other than a go route.

Adams played pretty well stepping in for Gilbert.

Anonymous Brian said...

They spiked the ball with 36 seconds left. There is no need to do that. It's a waste of a play. They gave themselves two chances instead of three to score a touchdown.

kyle said...

there were 36 seconds left. if you save the time out you still have the option of running the ball.

they review every scoring play and every turnover.

Patrick said...

also kyle, a catch is a catch is a catch, to put what im saying simply. It doesn''t matter where he caught it.

Anonymous Brian said...

I'd rather have Ben throw three times than have the option of running on one of my two chances. You can still run on first or second down too, I think. Worst-case scenario is you have to use the last timeout and then the third down play has to be a throw of course.

I don't even care I just can't go to sleep yet.

kyle said...

here's why it matters: if you catch the ball in the field of play and then the ball crosses the goal line it's instantly a touchdown. if you catch the ball in the end zone you have to establish possession and maintain possession as you go to the ground. your beef is with the rule, in which case, take it up with the competition committee.

overractionmakesyoustupid said...

why is anyone even commenting on whether tomlin should have challenged the td? um stupid, ALL scoring plays are reviewed after the play. How is tomling throwing his flag out there going to change the outcome? the review official decided it was a TD, no matter what tomlin does, it's not going to change that. you'd think this was college football, one loss doesn't end the season. and it's not like we lost to the jags or indy, we lost to a manning led offense/good defense away from pittsburgh...overreact much?

overractionmakesyoustupid said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Patrick said...

you keep assuming it was a catch at all in the first instance.

you said:

" if you catch the ball in the end zone you have to establish possession and maintain possession as you go to the ground. your beef is with the rule"

so you don't have to establish possession and maintain possession in the field of play?

come on now

Patrick said...

It felt to me, there was no booth review. They lined up almost immediately after. There is usually a good pause.

he did nothing is my point on the review. He didn't say one thing but stand there. I don't think the thought of it not being a TD ever crossed his mind.

kyle said...

it was clearly a catch. the only time the ball left his hands was after he took it over the goal line and went to the ground on his back. again, you are confusing this with something like the Calvin Johnson play from a couple years ago. that does not apply in this instance.

Patrick said...

Here is a good explanation by the way about this Tamme TD. And it was posted well after my comments if any one wants to fight about that.

kyle said...

they even mention in that article that the other examples did not involve someone breaking the plane. that's the difference. it's an inconsistent rule but that touchdown was within the rules.

Anonymous Brian said...

Larry Foote has probably half the physical ability of Lawrence Timmons. Hmm.

alexrkirby said...

The things I took from last night were:

We still can't run the ball consistently.

The oline is still a weakness.

We may miss Willie Gay in the secondary more than I expected.

We need to improve in the redzone, fg's killed us, see run game.

The Dline really struggled to stop the run. I'd like to see who was at fault here. Hood, Heyward Mclendon?

Someone remind me why Timmons gets paid so much cause he seems fairly average to me?

marc said...

the d-line was poor and it affected the rest of the defense. they couldn't stop the run without #43 in the box and they couldn't apply pressure rushing only four guys. manning had a field day keying off of #43.

overall, i thought the offense was fine. good mix of plays, routes, etc. #7 made some good, quick throws and was excellent on third downs. he obviously made a few mistakes, but hey, perfect games are rare to come by.

i agree with many of you, where's timmons? is he doing great things not noticed on tv?

dwyer, imo, has earned the starting job. i love how that kid runs and he deserves more carries.

all in all, not a bad opener. they had a chance to win it in the end but came up short. denver is good and manning was on fire.

btw, the spike at the goaline was stupid. plenty of time on the clock. always give yourself more chances to score.

Anonymous said...

Dwyer is clearly the better runner, maybe even better than mendy.. He needs to start against the jets period

marc said...

also, once denver went no huddle:


the steelers couldn't adjust. let's hope they find an snswer to that problem.

adamg said...

Denver is a tough place to play and Manning is a master at the no huddle. I think if the game is played in Pgh, it's a different outcome as Manning would have had to deal with crowd noise and also Ryan Clark giving Troy a lot more room to freelance.

Steelers should have had a TD instead of a FG had BR just lofted the ball a bit to Miller who had no one within 5 yards of him.

Don't understand all the angst over the spike on 1st down. The Steelers did score after all, but if they hadn't, the TO is there to use for a FG try. I can imagine the howling had they called TO, failed to score on 3 tries and then had to rush to get a FG or had no time at all to try one.

The fact is the NFL wanted Manning to have every possible chance to succeed and that's why Den opened at home on Sunday night. The schedule makers could just as easily had Den open in Balt (and Pgh play Cincy on MNF), but Manning probably would have lost that match up on the road.
The NFL made sure the Steelers were the turkey that got invited for Thanksgiving dinner.

marc said...

adamg, whether they scored or not is irrelevant, it's the concept. with 35 seconds to go they could have had three shots at the endzone instead of two. a competent QB knows to throw the ball out the back of the endzone if nothing is available or he is going to get sacked. no need for a timeout to get the FG unit on the field. essentialy, it was a wasted play. fortunately, they scored.

alexrkirby said...

I'm no expert but I don't see other teams spike the ball in that situation. Most teams only do that if they have no timeouts left.

I hear the argument that preserving our timeout means we have option to run the ball but I just don't think the threat of the run is worth wasting a down.

adamg said...

What's the difference if you waste first down or third down?

marc said...

why waste any downs? there was plenty of time to run three plays (if necessary) and still kick a field goal on fourth down.

kyle said...

It's plainly obvious that Ben loves to spike the ball. Anyone who has watched his career can see that. But in this particular instance I don't see it as a big mistake. Did they have to spike it? Certainly not. Is it out of line to save your final time out in case you get sacked or something crazy happens? I don't think so.

In other news, I am glad that Haley isn't allergic to running from the shotgun like Arians was but they seemed to run almost exclusively from shotgun, which I don't think does your running back any favors. They had a gameplan of playing keepaway from Manning and they accomplished that, the problem was he scored in 20 seconds in the 3rd quarter and the defense couldn't stop the no huddle regardless.

marc said...

i put this loss on the defense. the offense scored points and held onto the ball with no turnovers (until they were desperate).

the defense cannot give up 24 points on 4 consecutive drives and think they will win the game.

Patrick said...

kyle the article also says the rule:

Now, the ball may hit the ground as long as it doesn’t move — and as long as whenever a player going to the ground while catching the ball maintains possession through the act of going to the ground.

is that not the rule? because if you don't think so, we don't need to go further.

But if you agree with me that the text above is the rule, then explain to me how that was a catch.

And lets assume that it was a catch, my point is, and has been, that whatever auto review took place was extremely fast and it wasn't sent down for a further look - like Boldin's catch tonight was. And it was close enough for that to happen.

Also, I don't have a problem with Tomlin challenging the Decker catch - I have a problem with after it becoming plainly obvious that he wasn't getting it back, he insisted on getting a challenge he wasn't going to win and giving the Broncos an extra play.

kyle said...

That is the rule. The difference is he caught the ball in the field of play, took two steps, went into the end zone, fell on his ass, then the ball went out of his hands. That's a touchdown. He established possession prior to/as he crossed the goal line. Then he went down and then the ball was out. Had he caught that ball in the end zone and fallen and lost it, you'd be right. But that didn't happen, so you aren't right. It's just like when a team is on the goal line and someone lunges over the pile and holds the ball away to break the plane and a defender knocks it away. It's still a touchdown because he already had the ball and then the instant it crosses the line, it's a touchdown.

Patrick said...

You keep saying he caught the ball and my point is never "caught" the ball.

I don't think he established possession either, but no matter what he did not maintain possession which is required for a "catch"

so it is NOTHING like when a RB dives over - there is no dispute about possession in that situation, and you know that.

Patrick said...

and we can go back forth on this all day - it was worth a look that I don't believe it got. And Tomlin did not react to that fact.

kyle said...

I like how you make your argument and then act like we should move on. Anyway, he did "catch" the ball. I watched it again before my last comment. He definitely caught the ball. If you catch the ball and take two steps you can spike the damn thing. If the same thing had happened anywhere other than the end zone it would have been a fumble.

Also, it got a look. You know all those replays you watched during the game? The booth officials saw all of those and several more before Denver lined up. It also helps that they know the rule.

Tomlin doesn't have to pointlessly bitch about something on the sideline to appease you. You don't like him regardless but even if he did he doesn't have to do a damn thing about a play that he can't affect so you feel he "did enough" about it. Get over yourself.

Patrick said...

you also think spiking the ball on 1st down was a good idea, so you have blind faith.

I don't think he caught the ball and took two steps. Incompletions have been called on much less.

I'm sorry I expect Tomlin to be on the refs on game changing TD's if hes going to be on the refs about challenges he can't win that give an extra down to a team in the redzone with minutes left.

You probably will be happy when Tomlin brings Suisham out for one his 50 yard plus attempts at Heinz

kyle said...

I said "I don't think it was a big mistake" so that means I think it was a good idea? I'm not your straw man, champ.

It's not my opinion that he caught the ball and took two steps. Go watch it. It's readily available for viewing. The ball is in his hands, it is not bobbled, he takes two steps into the end zone, falls to the ground, the ball comes out.

"On the refs"? About something he can't affect? How many games have you missed living in Philly? Tomlin will talk to the officials about things that he can control. He will even have conversations about things that he would like clarification on. He does not, however, waste time on shit he can't change. And he definitely does not rant and rave on the sideline. He's not a Ryan or a Harbaugh.

Then you close up with another straw man argument. Way to go.

You know, I've defended you against the people who are unreasonable to you on this blog but you're really bad at arguing/discussing. I made some snarky comments to you in this thread which I honestly regret but you're just trying to be a dick just to do it and there's nothing good about that.

Patrick said...

you argued then cried like a little girl when you didn't like it. Your "get over yourself" comments didn't go unnoticed.

Is Tomlin ever ripe for criticism? He is the Teflon Don of the NFL. No one calls him out on his deficiencies. Nobody. He can do completely boneheaded things and make his stupid wannabe hard guy comments, and hes never questioned. Why?

kyle said...

I cried like a little girl? Yeah, I told you to get over yourself after you started acting like a dick.

And yeah, Tomlin can be criticized and often is. You can still call him out for his clock management, although in this game I don't think Ben spiking the ball with 36 seconds and one timeout rises to that level. I think a case can be made either way for that. You can criticize him for how he handles coaching changes, I think. I personally wasn't thrilled with the addition of Haley but I'll hold off judgement unless he does something really stupid. You can criticize him for going all Belichick about injuries all the time. There are lots of things.

The problem is you want to rag on him over nonsense like not throwing a hissyfit about legitimate touchdown, or trying to get a challenge flag recognized that ended up not working out (he can't just pick it up by the way, it seemed one of the officials saw the flag and signaled for the review), and of course you want to talk about how stupid he is for "wannabe hard guy comments" which I know refers to "unleash hell." Who cares that he quoted Gladiator after his team lost a tough game.

So if he is emotional he's a "boneheaded...hard guy." If he's not emotional he's "doing nothing." Which is it, Patrick? What do you expect from a football coach? You know what I expect from a football coach? That he win football games, particularly championships. He's already as good at that as Cowher was.